Military Mysteries: Darrell Berry's Story
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Cathy:Welcome to late boomers, our podcast guide to creating your third act with style, power, and impact. Hi. I'm Cathy Worthington.
Merry:And I'm Merry Elkins. Join us as we bring you conversations with
Cathy:world. Everyone has a story, and we'll take you along for the ride on each interview, recounting the journey our guests have taken to get where they are, inspiring you to create your own path to success. Let's get started.
Cathy:Hello. I'm Cathy Worthington welcoming you to a new late boomers podcast episode. I'm here with my cohost, Merry Elkins, and together we will be talking to Darrell Barry, a retired army officer who has written a mystery novel.
Merry:And I'm Merry Elkins. Darrell is a baby boomer and a retired gay officer who served during the don't ask, don't tell period in the US army. He has a book out called Early This Morning, and it's a work of fiction. But we'll get his take on the true situations as well as fiction. Welcome, Darryl.
Darrell Berry:Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Merry:Great to have you.
Cathy:Darrell, tell us about your education and your earlier life that led you to join the Army.
Darrell Berry:Oh, okay. Well, what led me to join the Army was a little thing called the draft. Actually, when I was quite young, I was in college. And so I was being drafted into Vietnam. So I ran down really quick and joined, because if you're drafted, who knows what you're gonna get?
Darrell Berry:And I wanted to be a medic. So I joined, I was a medic in an operating room technician. And then I'm sorry?
Merry:That's a hard job, many.
Darrell Berry:Oh, yes. Enjoyed But it. Then I got after three years, I got out. Finished school, had a bachelor's in psychology. Then I got a master's in human resources.
Darrell Berry:And then much later on, I got post graduate work in strategic intelligence, which is sort of like international relations.
Cathy:Oh, so you never went back in the Army after that?
Darrell Berry:Oh, I'm sorry. I did. After my three years after finishing college, then I went back as an officer.
Cathy:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Darrell Berry:And and then I spent the rest of the time as officer. So I spent both enlisted time and officer time.
Cathy:Oh, nice.
Merry:Yeah. Alright. And you did go to Vietnam?
Darrell Berry:No. Actually, by the time I was my training was over, everybody was coming back home. So, I mean, I literally missed it by months just Yeah.
Merry:Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about your book. Although it's fiction, is there some truth to the topic?
Darrell Berry:Yes. There is. It is I have to stress that it's fiction because I did work in the intel field later in my career, and I worked for the an area of intel. We were looking for countries that were developing biological agents in quantities large enough to weaponize. And so the book is a little bit about that, and it's, of course, a little bit about Don't Ask, Don't Tell, period.
Darrell Berry:But I will say it is all fiction, because people that after you have a top secret clearance, if you write much about your experience, you have to have it cleared. And I didn't have to have this cleared because it's totally fiction. But yes, but there's portions of it that you know, are true. And there's and as far as the gay part, there's certainly experiences that I either had or witnessed, you know, that are true. And a lot of characters in the book are a compilation of people that I knew or at least knew at a distance.
Merry:Well, tell us
Darrell Berry:a little.
Cathy:A little. Tell us about your personal experience being gay in the military and whether the don't ask, don't tell policy was viable or a giant mistake.
Darrell Berry:The don't ask, don't tell policy, which came into effect about 1994 through 2011, and I look at it like a stopgap between you know, before that, it was, you know, against regulations, you couldn't be gay and be in the military. Of course, there were a lot of gay people in the military. Don't Ask So Tell strictly said, you know, that your superiors can't ask you and you can't tell them if you're gay. But it was still illegal to be gay. So I consider it, I guess, a stop gap, for lack of better word.
Darrell Berry:And then, of course, then in in 02/2011, then that portion was over with us. It's okay to be gay in the military. But
Merry:so it was
Darrell Berry:an unusual time. Oh, and by the way, there were a lot of people during Don't Ask the Hotel that were dismissed. A lot of highly trained people thousands were dismissed during that period of
Merry:Oh, thousands.
Darrell Berry:What a waste. What a waste. What a waste.
Cathy:Oh my goodness.
Darrell Berry:But to give you an example of and this is about the second chapter of the book, I guess, this incident happens. I have had people come up to me in a bar, in a gay bar, that I maybe didn't know or just or knew them by sight, and would say they would come to me and just say, they're here. That's it. They're here. Well, I knew what that meant.
Darrell Berry:It meant they were either military police or some someone that were searching out gay people in the bar or around the bar.
Merry:When you were there, when you were in the service.
Darrell Berry:Oh, yeah. Mhmm. But with me, the way I figured it, I'm here, I'm having a drink, you know, I'm not doing anything else, so I didn't I was I was aware that they were there, but I I just sort of would have my drink and and leave. Well, I kinda dealt with that in the in fact, that kinda starts off the book. But, you know, things like that like that happen.
Darrell Berry:But basically, I just was very, private about my social life, and just at work, it was just work, work, work. You know? And people a lot times don't realize during that period of time, say someone had a spouse or a partner that was ill or something like that, and they happen to be gay. And then the same unit, somebody had a spouse or partner that was ill or even passed away or whatever, and they were straight. Well, the straight person in the military, well, goodness, you know, you were, you know, you were given time off and, you know, and given a lot of condolences, which you should be.
Darrell Berry:The gay person, zip. Nothing.
Cathy:Nothing.
Darrell Berry:You couldn't because it couldn't be. So they couldn't say anything. So they really so both their ups and downs in the military were Yeah. Very quiet and hidden. That's something I think that sometimes we miss when we think back to those days, because it just wasn't that, that's against law, you gotta watch out.
Darrell Berry:It was everything else that goes along with life in general that you would normally share with your coworkers or friends or whatever couldn't be shared.
Cathy:It's so tragic.
Merry:It is. It is. Well, and and do you feel well, do you feel that that policy was viable or a mistake?
Darrell Berry:That's a you know, I've thought about that a lot. Would it would it would it have been better that if they just hadn't had it at all and and it just continued to be a very harsh, you can't be in the military, you know, it's just black and white? Or I think it kind of I don't think it was a mistake because I think it promoted an earlier time when it was okay to be in the military. I think it pushed things along, let me put it like that. Okay.
Darrell Berry:And
Merry:and how do you think it is today, or do you prefer not to comment?
Darrell Berry:Well, today, I mean, from what I can tell, things seem to be pretty good at sort of like the norm. I mean, people don't make too much of a deal of it. But having said that, and I didn't know I don't wanna necessarily get too political, because I don't think that you're necessarily a political show. But now Of course, when I wrote the book, it was a while back, and I wasn't thinking about what's going on now politically. And I kinda wonder, and I hope people, after they read my book, hope they enjoy the book, but then I hope they kinda think, I wonder, could something like this happen all over again after they've finished?
Darrell Berry:Mhmm.
Cathy:Yeah. Wow.
Darrell Berry:That'll be
Cathy:a good discovery.
Merry:Yeah. I wanted to ask you this when we were talking about your book, but can you talk a little little bit more about your intelligence job in the army? Did you say it was top secret?
Darrell Berry:Yes.
Merry:And can you talk
Darrell Berry:about it,
Merry:or is it still top
Darrell Berry:secret? Talk about We spied on other I mean, everybody spies on everybody else, but we were looking for countries that were developing biological agents, like I said. But we also did other things. We would follow the health of leaders. We followed diseases.
Darrell Berry:If there was malaria in a certain country and we're gonna deploy there, we wanted to know that, hey, there's malaria there, so we need to take certain prophylaxis and stuff like that. It was an incredibly interesting job. I hate to be vague, but I kinda have to leave it there because I have to watch myself.
Cathy:Right, right.
Darrell Berry:Some of our leaders now, I go by the rules. Yeah.
Cathy:Tell us about how you decided to become a writer. What was that process and what was the process of creating the book?
Darrell Berry:I love to read. I absolutely love to read and I like mysteries. And I'm not for sure if I could put my finger on a certain point, but being in the military and the situation that I was in, working in that field, I know it just kind of came together for me. Think that it would be sort of interesting for people to know about both these things, but to do it in a I mean, to read about it in an entertaining mystery format. It just sort of came to me.
Darrell Berry:And so I started I would write a little bit and put it away, write a little bit, put it away, and did that for a long time. Then I finally said, before I forget some of these instances, I better sit down and write. And that's what I did. I just sit down and just wrote wrote wrote wrote wrote wrote. And then actually, I'm self published.
Darrell Berry:And that was quite an experience, but then I was encouraged to seek out a publisher several years later, which is what I've done. And I'm glad I did that because that was it was for me the way to go.
Cathy:It was great that you found a publisher. That's fabulous.
Merry:Was it difficult to find a publisher?
Darrell Berry:Know, Atmosphere Press is a hybrid. So I didn't even know about that till I started looking again for publishers. And the thing of it is, what I love about it, I own the book. I mean, I have all to say. Yes, you do pay them to publish it.
Darrell Berry:But my goodness, what a job. I mean, they just from editing to the cover, which, you know, you've seen, but anyway, from everything about it, was really, really, really first class. And I would do it again. And as a matter of fact, I'm I've got another book, very early stages, very early stages of another book, and I'll certainly use atmosphere.
Merry:Well, tell us more about your book. It's called Early This Morning. And you mentioned it was a mystery. But without spoiling the end, tell us more about it. Tell us the elevator pitch or more.
Darrell Berry:Alright. There there's a group of general officers in the Pentagon and some congressmen that are kind of in cahoots with one another, and they have been they have been trying trying trying trying to find ways to get rid of gay service members any way they can. Excuse me. Well, an order comes down. Legitimate order, top secret order comes down, and as they're going through the order, it is that they are to put together a group a company of soldiers to go overseas and spy on a country that we think they think are developing biological agents.
Darrell Berry:But as they do their planning process, it becomes very apparent that whoever they send will more than likely die. It's a very dangerous mission. And people are dying over in that country, and it's just as a matter of fact, it would probably, under normal conditions, wouldn't even send people because it was very dangerous. But come up with an idea. Hey, why don't we spy on these suspected gay men and women, bring them together into a company, train them up, and send them over?
Darrell Berry:We'll be killing two birds with one stone. One, hopefully, we'll get a lot of intel on this country that's developing biological agents, and it'll be a feather in our crown, in our helmet. And secondarily, if they die, and they probably will, who cares? Oh. They're just expendable.
Merry:Oh. Oh. So That's that is the quite a pitch.
Darrell Berry:That's the purpose of the book. So I'm
Cathy:curious Well, do you think the near tragedy in the book could happen today without revealing what it is?
Darrell Berry:It's pretty tragic. So you know what? I've thought about this a lot, and I get asked about this a lot. And I certainly think so more today than I did ten years ago. In other words, I think it's a possibility.
Darrell Berry:Maybe not to that degree, but there's little signs that are happening in the government that we're taking a step back. One of them is women in the military. I mean, they seem like they're wanting to push back. They don't have women in combat, which we do have. But I mean, you know what mean?
Darrell Berry:They're slowly trying to take that away. I can see something like that. To answer your question, I can see something along these lines along those lines happening.
Cathy:Yes.
Darrell Berry:And that's what I want when people in the book, I want that's what I want them to think about. Could this happen again?
Merry:Yeah. Yeah. But we don't know what it is, and we don't want you to reveal it so people will read it. But it sounds like it could be a screenplay and a movie. Are you thinking about doing that?
Darrell Berry:Yes. As a matter of fact, I'm glad you brought that up because I've I've been asking around some students here, well, professors, if they have any students that would be interested in, that are screenplay students, I mean, if they would be interested in kinda taking this all on the side. And I've had some buy I haven't really decided on anyone yet. But I think, I mean, people have encouraged me to do that. So I am kind of looking around.
Darrell Berry:I mean, of course, I think it would be a good screenplay, but I guess every author thinks their book would be
Merry:a good We
Cathy:have talked to quite a few authors who thought that. Yes. Uh-huh. Are any of your characters based on real people that you know? I think you referred that they are.
Cathy:So but you obviously have to change them enough to make
Merry:them That's
Darrell Berry:exactly right. Yes.
Merry:And so you combine different people that you know into, say, one or two characters, or five,
Darrell Berry:or I did. I actually I I did do that. And in this company that they've, excuse me, that they've gathered together of gays and lesbians, and trained up, and they're gonna send overseas, they're all gay, and they start looking around, and all of sudden, and say, wait a minute, I know you, I know you. And then they say, oh, wait a minute, this entire company is gay. Could it really be?
Darrell Berry:But there is one person, a mole that is not gay that has been placed in that company. And I better not go any further than that. I might be done. Yeah.
Merry:Is that a real person?
Darrell Berry:Yes. Uh-huh. And that person was was mad.
Merry:This is getting deeper in
Darrell Berry:Well, person a lot of the people were, yeah, just made up of of people I knew or at least a combination of a compilation of, you know. Well,
Merry:you mentioned that you're working on another book or thinking about it. Is it of the same genre or different?
Darrell Berry:It's it's a mystery novel. I don't know. I'm really, really at the Earth's age. It's gonna be about a Lyft driver. Oh.
Darrell Berry:And characters that he becomes associated with in his driving around. But and there's gonna be I'm not really for sure yet how I wanna go with the mystery part of it, if this isn't gonna be something Because I mean, you could write about a bunch of very unusual or funny or strange characters, but to bring them all together in a book and have a goal and a protagonist. I have a Do
Merry:you, when you're writing, start with your characters or the mystery? Or how do you do that? Because it sounds
Darrell Berry:like No. The mystery.
Merry:Start with the mystery.
Darrell Berry:Mhmm. Start with the mystery and do the characters. That's why I'm kind of fumbling around with the book. As a matter of fact, I've started driving Lyft every now and then to to get characters.
Cathy:Research.
Darrell Berry:Yeah.
Cathy:Beautiful. Beautiful.
Darrell Berry:I'm developing all these characters, but but I'm having a bit of a problem because, like I say, when I when I wrote the first book, it
Merry:was the it was a mystery story, and then I brought the characters in. And now then, I've got all these characters, but I'm not so I'm kinda going backwards. I need to kinda revamp on the second book and
Cathy:Too many come people appeared.
Darrell Berry:Let me tell you, there are a lot of characters. I don't drive very much just every now and then to do research.
Cathy:Darrell, what would you like our viewers to have as a takeaway today?
Darrell Berry:The book is not very long. It's very fast paced, or I think it is. I've been told it is very fast paced. I I I think it's a a real fun read, and I think everybody will enjoy it to the very last page. But when you finish the book, I hope you reflect on, is this possibly gonna happen again?
Darrell Berry:Mhmm. Kind of think about that. For this issue and maybe even other issues that are in society.
Merry:I can't wait to read it. Thank you, Daryl. Our guest today on late boomers has been retired army officer Daryl Barry, the author of the new mystery novel called early this morning. And, again, I can't wait to go out and get it. You can find out more about his book on his website, g, excuse me, gberrybooks.com, and that's gberrybooks.com.
Merry:Thanks again, Daryl.
Darrell Berry:Thank you for listening. Certainly enjoyed.
Cathy:Thanks. Thank you for listening to our Late Boomers Podcast and subscribing to our Late Boomers Podcast channel on YouTube. We appreciate you so much. Listen in next week when you'll meet another exciting guest, author Mary Anne Wood. You can listen to Late Boomers on any podcast platform and look at our new website lateboomers.us where you can find all our episodes and descriptions of them.
Cathy:Please follow us on Instagram I am Kathy Worthington and at I am Mary Elkins and LateBoomers. Thanks again to Darrell Barry.
Darrell Berry:Thank you. Really enjoyed
Merry:it. Absolutely.
Cathy:Thank you for joining us on late boomers, the podcast that is your guide to creating a third act with style, power, and impact. Please visit our website and get in touch with us at lateboomers.us. If you would like to listen to or download other episodes of late boomers, go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry:This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and most other major podcast sites. We hope you make use of the wisdom you've gained here and that you enjoy a successful third with your own style, power, and impact.
