Con Men, Hustlers, Drifters, Girlfriends, Lovers: "Breaking Out of Pinewood" Author Linda K. Goldman
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Cathy Intro:Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide to creating your 3rd act with style, power, and impact. Hi. I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Intro:And I'm Mary Elkins. Join us as we bring you conversations with successful entrepreneurs, entertainers, and people with vision who are making a difference in the world.
Cathy Intro:Everyone has a story and we'll take you along for the ride on each interview, recounting the journey our guests have taken to get where they are, inspiring you to create your own path to success. Let's get started.
Cathy:Hi. I'm Kathy Worthington. Welcome to late boomers. Today, our special guest is author Linda Goldman, whose book breaking out of Pinewood has become a booksellers feature choice and National Book Club sensation.
Merry:And I'm Mary Elkins. Linda worked as a disgruntled secretary, those are her words, before opening her own employment agency in her late thirties, graduated UCLA in sociocultural, if I can say that, sociocultural anthropology in her forties, worked as a dispute resolution professional in her fifties, and began writing in her sixties. Breaking Out of Pinewood is her first novel. Welcome, Linda, to Late Boomers.
Linda K. Goldman:Thank you. It's great to be here.
Merry:Great to have you.
Cathy:Linda, can you tell us how your background influenced your life as a writer and your stories?
Linda K. Goldman:Sure. Well, first of all, I've always loved a a good story, good storytellers. My father could tell a great joke. And I've always been interested in various cultures and, you know, just learning about people. I had kind of a crazy, young adult life.
Linda K. Goldman:I lived in London. I lived in New York. And, my husband was English. So there were lots of lots of new information and new experiences coming in all the time. I, the the book is really, placed in a little town up in Colorado.
Linda K. Goldman:And my husband and I had a a house in a small town in Colorado. And it's kind of based on that town, but everything in the book is fictitious, except for perhaps Sandy.
Merry:Sandy didn't
Linda K. Goldman:get that. Beginning of a
Cathy:but you took You took a long route to get to where you are. So, how did you happen to like, for instance, how'd you end up at UCLA when you're in your forties? That's so interesting to me.
Merry:In socio and socio what is it? Socioeconomic? Socio cultural. Sociocultural.
Linda K. Goldman:Well, I was a single mom, and I raised my kids from the time they were 13 till the time they were 18 and 20. I remarried or I remarried then. And so I was responsible for them, you know, and making a living and so forth all those years. Then after I married my second husband, I quit my employment agency, I think, much to his dismay, to be honest, and went back to school. I always wanted to, you know, have more education, but I was not in a position to do it, raising my kids.
Linda K. Goldman:And I kinda had ants in my pants when I was young, couldn't settle down and finish college.
Cathy:Oh, I get it.
Merry:Yes.
Cathy:It's wonderful.
Merry:Yeah. Well, talking about your book, Breaking Out of Pinewood, would you give our audience a thumbnail sketch of of the storyline?
Linda K. Goldman:Okay. Let's see. Well, it's
Cathy:Not too many spoilers.
Merry:No. Yeah. No spoilers.
Cathy:Yeah. She
Linda K. Goldman:knows how to do that. I hope so. Well, it it starts out with a young girl with just parents that just cannot figure out how to be parents. It was a shotgun marriage. They were very young.
Linda K. Goldman:And so she's kind of has to, find her way in life. And although she's more adult than her parents in certain ways, she she just really doesn't know how to negotiate her way through. So she kind of gets attracted to some not so terrific people. And it's it's kind of a wild story
Cathy:Totally.
Linda K. Goldman:With crazy characters. I I really had a lot of fun naming the characters. I paid a lot of attention to how the name fit the character, and that was a lot of fun for me.
Merry:I wasn't about that a a bit.
Cathy:Yeah. I think that's great.
Linda K. Goldman:Well, like, for example I won't go into why, but Angela ends up becoming shortening her name to Angel. And there was a real reason for that. A lot of having to do with the trouble she keeps getting into. And the woman that owns the cafe is Faye Vespers. And Vespers is like, kind of a jazz performance in churches, like, on Sunday afternoons.
Linda K. Goldman:And her first name Faye is almost like Faith. And so she is a very she's probably the most kind, decent, wonderful person in the story. So, I wanted her name to reflect that.
Cathy:How fun.
Linda K. Goldman:Later yeah. Later on, there's an Arthur, which is, you know, I mean, not to be disparaging about anybody named Arthur, but a little more of an uptight name than some of the other characters in the
Merry:book. Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. And there are more. You know? There are more. I'm I I thought carefully about each name.
Cathy:And is Pinewood a real place?
Linda K. Goldman:Pinewood is not a real place except in my mind. Mhmm. I when I was came up with the name, I was looking for other Pinewood cities, and I think there's only one in the country somewhere in the south. There are country clubs named Pinewood. There are camps named Pinewood.
Linda K. Goldman:There are all kinds of things named yeah. But but Pinewood, is not a real place. It's up supposed to be up in the rockies in Colorado, and there are 2 other towns called Copperville and Geiger.
Cathy:I was gonna ask you
Linda K. Goldman:about those.
Cathy:Those aren't really. They're No. Those are those are your inventions.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Yeah. Geiger Springs is pretty much, based location wise, not that the reader would know unless they know the area based on Glenwood Springs, and Copperville is a fictionalized version of Carbondale.
Cathy:They've been to both places. I like those names.
Linda K. Goldman:Creative names. Thank you. Thank you.
Merry:Yeah. So tell tell us, are any of your characters based on real people or real events that happened?
Linda K. Goldman:The only one, that's anything like a real person that I know is Sandy. The way she flips her hair around and then the good friend that she is is based on a friend of mine that lives in Carbondale. Everybody else is a complete work of fiction. Some of the names are based on people. There's a character, Big Martha, who is based on my writing teacher, who's not big at all.
Linda K. Goldman:But I just thought it would be fun to plug her name into the book somewhere. The the parents are named Jerry and Grace. And those are my my cousin, Grace, and her husband, Jerry. Oh. But the only the reas only reason I named them that is not because they're anything like my cousin and her long deceased husband, but because the character is so ungraceful and she's so uncouth that I thought the name Grace would be funny for her.
Linda K. Goldman:Nothing like the character.
Cathy:Are you working with quite a bit of humor in the book then?
Linda K. Goldman:You have to ask Mary.
Cathy:I hope Mary's read it, and I haven't read it, so I'm at a disadvantage. I just wonder if there's a lot of
Merry:I don't tell.
Cathy:Funny stuff.
Merry:At least at least on a podcast.
Cathy:Oh, well, you can say if there's humor.
Merry:Well, it's hilarious, actually. I think there's so much in it that's totally funny. I mean, I just catch myself going giggling, and I think, oh but Linda's very funny. Linda and I, by the way, for our audience, have known each other for 2 or 3 I don't know. I was gonna say, like, how many years?
Merry:I don't know. 5 or 6?
Linda K. Goldman:Maybe 4. 3 or 4.
Merry:Yeah. Oh, not that long. Anyway, I have to ask you more about your characters because I'd like to know if they aren't based on real people, how did you come up with them? They're so complicated in so many ways, or they they look so they feel so real. And I'm wondering
Linda K. Goldman:Oh, go ahead.
Merry:How did you do that? How did you go into developing them?
Linda K. Goldman:Well, it took a lot. First of all, it took me 10 years to write this book. And when I first started writing, I really didn't know how to write, to be honest. And so as I was writing it, I was learning how to write. So
Merry:I get that.
Linda K. Goldman:Not that I not that there isn't tons to learn. There always is. And I don't claim to be finished with learning how to write. But, I I don't know. I I you know, people ask me, did you write every morning?
Linda K. Goldman:Did you have a routine? No. It was very haphazard. And, I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't recommend approaching something that way.
Linda K. Goldman:But I would not look at it for a few days, and then I would sit down and write for 6 or 7 hours straight with all of a sudden realizing the room was dark. You know? Sometimes I would leap out of bed with an idea and go, oh, you know, I like that phrase or something like that.
Cathy:Wow.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. And I think
Merry:Yeah. So that's Well, I I just wanna elaborate a you to elaborate a bit because in reading the book, which is so fun and the characters are so outrageous, and maybe there's a part of you I don't know or haven't met yet, but how did you write about people whose lives have nothing in common with yours?
Linda K. Goldman:I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know. I I don't know anybody like those people except for Sandy. Other than that, I just let them tell me who they were, which I know sounds kind of strange.
Linda K. Goldman:But honestly, I just don't know. I think it all started with a cartoon in the New Yorker. The whole idea of this book came from a cartoon in the New Yorker. And if you don't mind, I'll explain it to you a little bit. Alright.
Linda K. Goldman:It's I still laugh when I see it. I did get a copy of it, a signed copy of it. Good. Excuse me. Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:But, it was 4 women, young women. You can tell the driver of this car has got a cute little one ponytail. She's got a scarf across her face, sunglasses, and she looks young. And the she's with 3 other girls in the car. 2 of them have a gun out the window and one of them has a money bag on her lap.
Linda K. Goldman:There's a bank in the background. So clearly, they just robbed the bank. And the, the caption is, and to think we started as a book group.
Merry:Oh, that's great. That's great. You're gonna give every book group out there some ideas.
Linda K. Goldman:Well, I just thought it was so funny and this
Cathy:Love that.
Linda K. Goldman:I know. It's so funny. So that started it, and I didn't know what I was gonna do. I just maybe thought I'd write a little short story. And then I thought, I need why?
Linda K. Goldman:How did they get to this? Who are these people? What were the parents like? Where did they live? You know, how do these girls get to that?
Linda K. Goldman:And, it it just took off from there. It just took off from there. Yeah. I think it's I'm sorry.
Cathy:No. It's okay. Continue.
Linda K. Goldman:Okay. Well, there's also a song by Eva Cassidy. Eva Cassidy, if you know who she is. And she, sang a song that honestly breaks I break down every time I hear it. Maybe not as much as I used to, but it's called gas station mountain home.
Linda K. Goldman:And it's about this young girl who's that's where she lives. She's already got 3 kids. She's very young, and all she wants to do is see the city lights. They must shine so bright. And she's trapped.
Linda K. Goldman:She's trapped. Her husband drinks too much. It's a song. It's a country song. It's fantastic.
Linda K. Goldman:That helped me understand part of my character and the choices that she made, good or bad or otherwise. And breaking out of Pinewood, that's what she wants to do from the very, very beginning of the book. First chapter, she wants to get out of there. This character in the song influenced my thinking. I thought about that song a lot, quite a lot.
Cathy:Well, that's great. While you wrote?
Linda K. Goldman:Pardon me?
Merry:Did you play it while you wrote?
Linda K. Goldman:No. No. I didn't. I didn't. But I thought about it a lot.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah.
Cathy:Yeah. It kinda gave you motivation. But you didn't start writing till your sixties. So what motivated you to start writing then?
Linda K. Goldman:Well, life had changed and I I wasn't working anymore. And, you know, a lot of times when, you know, people retire, what am I gonna do? What do I wanna do? What I've always wanted to, you know, just start trying to figure out where to go next. And a very, talented friend of mine is an artist and a writer was telling me about a particular writing workshop.
Linda K. Goldman:And I said, you know, I think I'd like to give that a try. I'd never the only writing I'd ever done before was, for my business. Just ads, you know, which was fun because you've got to they've got to be very punchy. Right? And grabs, but it doesn't give you much in terms of those skills.
Merry:Excuse me. Discipline.
Linda K. Goldman:And but I will say I had a piece published when I was in the 3rd grade, and it was all about silkworms. And it was in the PTA newsletter. So my first piece was published at 8, and the the next piece was published at
Cathy:old. You're not gonna say. But did you so that's what you wrote early in life, but that's it.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. One little thing when I say it.
Cathy:Well, what was the inspiration to write this book then? What hit what hit you over the head that made you do it?
Linda K. Goldman:Well, it was that cartoon. You know, it got me going. Yeah. You know? I mean, I was writing other things in class, for and it was a workshop.
Linda K. Goldman:Right?
Merry:You were writing poetry? You were writing poetry?
Linda K. Goldman:I've done a little poetry. It's not really what I'm attracted to, for myself. I don't think that's for me particularly. But I don't know. Just once I got going on this, it just kept building and building.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Do your do your care
Merry:I mean, you were saying this all just came to you. Do so many writers just sit there, and they say these characters appear almost in video to them. Is that what happened to you, or did they speak in voices to you? How did that work?
Linda K. Goldman:A a little of age. I'm more of a visual person. I didn't write this as a movie, but I see it I saw it as a movie as I was writing it. I'm much more visual, than anything else. And I would just see these.
Linda K. Goldman:I mean, I would just see Angela. Angela was a little bit or quite a bit. Her personality, her very, very, strong sense of, how do I say it? Just men would always be very their heads would snap around when they saw her type thing from the time I'm talking about my character, when she was a young girl all the way through. But she part of her was based on my business partner, who is just a very, very unusual looking in the sense that not classically beautiful, but she had tawny skin.
Linda K. Goldman:She had strawberry blonde hair, big brown eyes, and a killer body. And, she was she had a wild streak. She was really, really fun. She was really fun. And it was a little bit for me paying homage to her.
Linda K. Goldman:You know, even though they I talk about her looking like Anne Margaret, she you know, I thought that was relatable for people.
Merry:Yeah. Yeah. Well, what was the hardest part of your book to write?
Linda K. Goldman:Anything having to do with legal procedure, courtroom procedures. It just was so hard for me. I I really, really, really resisted learning about it. I kind of skipped from one thing and jumped over that, and I thought, I've gotta write about it. It's really important.
Linda K. Goldman:So I had to go to the library, and I honestly was sweating. I just I was gonna write you
Cathy:about the research involved. Sounds like there was quite a bit. Right?
Linda K. Goldman:There actually was. Even though it's a lighthearted book and it's a romp. I that's how I describe it. Romp. First of all, yes.
Linda K. Goldman:The courtroom stuff and all of that was really, really hard. And I towards the end of the book, I don't wanna give Mary, you'll know because you said you read it, but some another world I knew nothing about. And I I spent hours and hours and hours of research and listening to blogs or vlogs or whatever you call them. And I, you know, I wanted it to sound authentic, and it was very interesting to do that. I even did research, you know, on vernacular, you know, slang of the time and things like that.
Merry:Yeah. The way things looked. It takes place in the sixties. Right? Yeah.
Merry:Yeah. Any reason why you chose then? I mean, was it relatable or, why?
Linda K. Goldman:Well, it's because it would just first of all, there's a lot of musical references there because music's always been really important part of my life. And I think, you know so I'm very familiar with that music, and those are my growing up years. You know? So I could it was just easier for me to understand and to relate to myself in order to know my character. Mhmm.
Linda K. Goldman:You know? Since she was complete she was not a fictionalized version of me. So I had to do whatever I could do to make myself comfortable. You know? You know?
Cathy:What would be your what would be your recommendations for other people who wanna complete a book or a big project? Do you have, like, advice?
Linda K. Goldman:I do.
Merry:You do? Good.
Linda K. Goldman:I do. Stay away from social media.
Merry:Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:I've never been a big television watcher, even now when there's so much good content. I never have. And so it's was easier for me. I didn't have to tear myself away from a favorite program or something like that. But, anything like that is a huge distraction.
Linda K. Goldman:And the more you leave space, you know, because my experience, and I'm sure it's true for so many people that have written a book, fiction or nonfiction, you need you sort of need the space in your head. You need to just let it kind of live inside of you. You're not just writing when you, sit down in front of a laptop or your computer. You can be writing something just in your mind when you wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night. Right.
Merry:In the
Linda K. Goldman:middle of the night. Right? You jump out of bed, you know? So and I I would say that's a big one, you know? I can't I mean, I think it's great when people develop a a regular writing routine.
Linda K. Goldman:I think it's probably terrific. It's just not me, my personality. But, the other part of it is just to take it a day at a time. Don't project all the way to worrying about the finished product. Enjoy it and submerge yourself and live in it.
Linda K. Goldman:And just take it for what it is. And just, you know, not worry about how it'll how it'll end. Even if you have rewritten you've written the end already, which I did not. I did not. I just let it go and go, oh, okay.
Linda K. Goldman:This is where it's going. So there are different ways, you know, with the the approach. But I would just say just sink in and enjoy it as much as you can, and it'd be a lot more easy and not such drudgery. It's not that I didn't have tough times or, you know, blocks at of course, I did. You know?
Linda K. Goldman:And things that I just had to throw out pages going, no. No good.
Merry:Did you throw out a lot of it? Did you have to rewrite a lot of it?
Linda K. Goldman:I was rewriting as I went.
Merry:Mhmm.
Linda K. Goldman:You know, I'd go back and I go, no. I would fix a phrase. I would fix something. I had to throw out at the end working with an editor about 35 pages. Oh.
Linda K. Goldman:Killed me. But but it did, but it didn't because you know what how much work that is.
Merry:Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:But it was okay because it was the right thing to do. It needed to move faster at the beginning.
Merry:Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:And then I just rewrote another chapter where I had to change the whole twist where I didn't want I wanted this quiz person to be a questionable character. And I turned her by suggestion into a good person, and that worked better. That's what writing is all about. You've gotta be willing to do that. Mhmm.
Merry:Right? That's that's true. Yeah. That's true.
Linda K. Goldman:So you're It can be painful. Yeah. I'm sorry?
Merry:No. You're self published, but I want I'd like to know what your thoughts are about self publishing versus getting an agent and trying for one of the big fives or even going for an indie publisher.
Linda K. Goldman:I'm not, the best person to ask about these hybrid publishers. I went to a writing conference last year, and I realized, even though I knew at some level, there were a lot of agents there and things like that. You could have these quick little 10 minute speed dating type interviews with them. I met with 3 of them, and then there was a panel of them. And I realized right then and there that it could be years before I got an agent or it may never happen.
Linda K. Goldman:And I could be waiting and waiting and waiting for years. And then once you have the agent, it can be years before a publisher is interested, or maybe they never are. And, I just thought, I don't have that kind of time. I don't have the patience. I think that, I did the right thing for me.
Linda K. Goldman:I could still be sitting here waiting, you know, for letters.
Merry:Oh, god.
Cathy:I am. True. True.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Yeah. I still could. And the thing is too, it seems to me just in the even the past 5 years, and believe me, I don't claim to be an expert on this, that self publishing is much, much more widely accepted. I always felt that I wanted that validation.
Linda K. Goldman:This is good enough where a publisher wants it. You know? But in actual fact, it's through a lot of things that are being widely read and widely accepted that are self published, and, I'm comfortable with that. I would just say, in my experience, I'm not a great detail oriented person. And so I worked with somebody that helped me get there.
Linda K. Goldman:You know, I paid somebody to help me to do the final editing. She had all kinds of suggestions. And, and then there's the marketing part after.
Merry:And I should ask you about that. How hard is it to market your book? I mean, you have to market yourself too.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Well, part of the answer to that is that unless you're a big name author, you have to market it yourself anyway. They don't go to bat for every single person. They'll go to bat for the big name people or somebody. They'll identify one book that they say this is and they'll put all their energy behind that one thing.
Linda K. Goldman:Like, I think lessons in chemistry might have been a perfect example of that.
Merry:Yeah. And
Linda K. Goldman:you can see why they put their energy behind it. It was really Yeah. It was good. Oh,
Cathy:yeah. Fabulous.
Linda K. Goldman:But, it's it's only it's as hard, you know, I know a lot of creative people are not good at marketing themselves. And it's like the the other side of themselves that they just can't, you know, lock into. I understand that. Right. Because yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:Because I had my own business, you know, for, 12 years. I I know how to do that a little bit. But there's there's a whole other world of, you know, social media things and reading in bookstores and
Merry:You're doing.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Yeah. There's more about there's more I mean, people can say I haven't and I don't think I will start a whole Facebook page just for their book. You know, things that I haven't done.
Cathy:But you can. Are you on Instagram?
Merry:She is.
Linda K. Goldman:Vaguely. Vaguely. So you're not posting?
Cathy:All the time. You're not posting all about the book on Instagram?
Linda K. Goldman:No. I should. I will.
Cathy:But, yeah, it's real real easy to set up a Facebook page and then just add a post every week on there to, like, remind people to read it.
Merry:And then it goes direct to Instagram. Right? If you if you allow
Cathy:it to? It could. Yeah. Yeah. It could.
Cathy:Okay. Yeah. And, Linda, what would you like our audience to have as a takeaway today?
Linda K. Goldman:Well, if if the people that are listening or viewing are, you know, writing a book or wanna write a book or just stay with it. I have to tell you, it is absolutely the most amazing thing to see what you've been working on for years between 2 covers as a finished product. It is just it's the most incredible. It's like giving birth. I mean, that's not the newest, thought in the world, but it truly is.
Linda K. Goldman:It truly
Merry:is. By the way.
Linda K. Goldman:Thank you. Should I show it?
Merry:Yeah. Show it.
Cathy:Sure. Our listeners can't hear it.
Linda K. Goldman:I know. You're not Breaking out of fine wood.
Merry:With the motorcycle and, the ace of parts and, what else?
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. That's basically it.
Merry:Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Just, you know, I would say the other takeaway is it's really important to stay open and to listen to editors, but make sure you get the right editor that you trust and you believe in. They're not all great. I can tell you. There was one that I worked with who was saying how much she liked my work, and I'm like, yes.
Linda K. Goldman:And I needed her expertise. She didn't give me much. And other ones that I work with seem to be more oriented towards content, which is great, and others more oriented towards punctuation. So if you work with an editor, find out which sort of editor they are, unless they do all of it, but ask the question, I didn't know. I didn't know.
Linda K. Goldman:You know? You you were
Cathy:kind of trial and error on that.
Linda K. Goldman:Everything. Everything, Kathy.
Merry:Right. Try one and then there. Move on.
Cathy:No. Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:Yeah. Well The other thing I
Cathy:I have, like good end result.
Linda K. Goldman:I'm well.
Cathy:I hope so. What else were you gonna say?
Linda K. Goldman:Oh, well, I just wanted to share one other thing. Uh-oh. Did it slip away from me? Oh, yes. I had one editor who was really good on content.
Linda K. Goldman:She told me there were things in my book that weren't politically correct, and she said this just won't fly right now. And I started to change them. And I said to myself, you know what? I want them there. I like it.
Linda K. Goldman:This took place in the sixties seventies. People use different language, had different thoughts, different ideas. Mhmm. The cultural the whole culture was different at that time. Yeah.
Linda K. Goldman:It wasn't written for today. And I went back to my original. I'm happy that I did. And I think people really have to know themselves and have confidence in themselves about what to keep and what to let go of. And it can be challenging.
Merry:Mhmm. That's great. Advice. Wonderful advice. Thank you so much.
Merry:Our guest today on Late Boomers has been Linda Goldman, author of the terrific book, Breaking Out of Pinewood. You can reach Linda at plentifulpress@gmail.com, and you can buy her book at Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all brick and mortar stores. Thank you.
Cathy:And we wanna thank our listeners for subscribing to our podcast and checking us out on YouTube and recommending us to your friends. We appreciate you, and we'd love to have you give us a 5 star review. And we wanna hear about your experiences with late boomers and what gets you inspired. We are on Instagram at I am Kathy Worthington, at I am Mary Elkins, and at late boomers. Thank you for listening, and thanks again, Linda.
Linda K. Goldman:Thank you so much. Thank you for having me today. Really enjoyed talking with both of you. Thanks so much.
Cathy:You too. Thank you.
Linda K. Goldman:Bye bye.
Cathy Intro:Thank you for joining us on Late Boomers. The podcast that is your guide to creating a 3rd act with style, power, and impact. Please visit our website and get in touch with us at lateboomers.biz. If you would like to listen to or download other episodes of late boomers, go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry Intro:This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and most other major podcast sites. We hope you make use of the wisdom you've gained here and that you enjoy a successful third act with your own style, power, and impact.
